Speed 3 15 Deluxe Edition

[gridlok]

I flew this kite for about 5 hours in about 10-28 mph with a Jimmy Lewis Fish 6’8” strapless surfboard, a bunch of different directional raceboards with huge fins, Session 141 and Rip Plus 138. I weigh 200lbs, I’m unusually tall and have been kiting for about 10 years, five of them obsessively. I generally fly the speed 2’s but I have one P4 12 for those really high wind days. I met up with KiteRider from Quebec down at Hatterass and he had borrowed this demo kite from Ted on his way down. He was nice enough to let me ride it in a variety of conditions with a variety of boards. I was very impressed with this kite, in fact I’d say hands down it is the nicest kite I’ve ever flown and I’ve flown probably close to 50 kites in my short kiting career.

Pros:
- Turning speed and depower are greatly improved, about a 20-25% improvement over the S2.
- They did away the overpressure valves which you don’t need on these big kites anyways which will save weight and also keep the internal pressure up on the kite.
- There are now some serious structural cross members that run the width of the kite and make a big X across the kite, this should cut down on structural damage when the 5th line is used and also make the kite more structurally sound.
- The depower bridle moved from a 6.2.1 on the S2 to a 4.2.1 like the P4, this helps the kite turn much faster and also have more depower by moving the B risers 50% more when the bar is pulled in or out.
- The kite seems to fly properly out of the bag without having to tune the mixer to B-1 and C-2, a nice change.
- FS added dedicated 3 Fifth line attachment points, when I make my own FDS bridles I can make them with 7 bridle lines and have the load distributed over even more points which should help avoid internal damage in the kite when deployed in high winds. The new dedicated 5th line points do not have any extra reinforcing
- No ringlines, these always sucked so it’s nice to see them gone
- The bridle lines are in general much shorter, about ½ the length of the S2. The primaries are the normal bridle material but the mains and secondary’s are sleeved which makes them much stiffer and less prone to tangles. The Blades use these thin sleeved lines on the bridles and I always really liked it.
- They did away with the Black LCLs which break too easily and now have only white and pinks. As someone who has broken hundreds of LCLs I can’t tell you what a relief this is, I gave up on the blacks long ago and would only replace them with whites, not that I’m racist or anything.
- They labeled the ABC and Z bridles which makes the mixer test easier especially for newbies.
- The diagonal cell structural straps are ripstop not the stiff crap that ripped all the time they used on the P3. I don’t understand why FS doesn’t make flat tubes of the ripstop to double the strength of the rib cross member connectors and to keep them from ripping off from the edges.
- Much less tip collapse than the P4, still a little bit, especially in super light winds.
- Better Sprenger pullies, the old Ronstans suck in comparison.

Cons:
- The pulley lines are still crap, I don’t understand why Armin does not switch to using 3 mm Amsteel, we use that on all our kites, hundreds of hours of really hard riding and no failures. All the other bowkite manufacturers use 3mm amsteel on their pullies, why can’t FS?
- The Infinity Bar is crap, the chickenloop lines wear out way too fast and the swivel does not swivel well. I’d opt for the old bar and the newer chicken loop which is actually pretty nice.
- The FLS looks bad to me, they have the FLS line running though the aluminum block and out to the kite with a bungieish cord. I can’t imagine that the line will not get issues when pulling though that block at high velocity but I did not test. I would recommend getting the kite with the 5th line so at least you have a chance at water relaunching it.
- The extreme wind range creates an illusion of control that makes the kiter feel like the wind is much less than it actually is. For beginners this could prove to be very dangerous indeed
- The power spike when pulling in the bar in is not smooth like the S2 but tends to spike, sometimes violently in strong gusty winds more like the P4 does. When riding in gusty winds I started pumping the bar to the rhythm of the gusts and by the 3rd pull I got yanked off my edge very violently and thrown downwind.
- Looks like the same zipper on the bag, I have to mention it. All these years and still the same crappy zipper on the bag.

Launching (7) Kite inflates slowly in high winds, tends to drag the launcher pretty far downwind, especially if they don’t preinflate the kite, not as good as the S2.

Depower (9) Much improved over the S2, on par with a bow kite

Jumping (10) Insanely high, more pop than the S2, If you push the bar out the landings will be much harder and faster as well. It’s hard to imagine a kite with more pop and hangtime.

Upwind Performance (9) There is nothing on the market that compares, except the S2 or S1.

Downwind Performance (8) Better than the S2, when you turn towards the kite it does not drop out of the sky, the P4 is still a better wave riding kite

Gust handling (8) Much better than the S2, not as good as the P4

Low End (9) At least as good as the S2

Landing. (8) Easier to stall and self land than the P4, especially if you opt for the 5th line.

Water relaunch. (9) Very easy, did not have any bowties or overflies in my usage.

Turning. (9) There is room for improvement, but it’s fast enough that you could use a S3 15 as your only kite and not be annoyed by the turning speed when doing tricks. It was hard to go back to the S2 after flying this kite.

I don’t make any money with kiting and have paid over $15000 in FS kites and boards over the last 5 years. I love the FS brand, and work hard to support it because it keeps me having more fun than everyone else on the water even though I weigh a lot more than they do.

The bridle spacing is insane on the S3, the A-B spacing is bigger than the B-C spacing near the center of the kite and the C-D spacing is very large near the ends of the wingtips. I got so excited by this kite that I switched my S2 12 to a 4.2.1 bridle to test it. It had more depower and turned much faster and flew fine in about 10 mph of wind. When I tried to launch it in gusty 20+ offshore conditions the kite was extremely unstable and I got body dragged all over the place, cut up my knees pretty bad, and had to come in and land the kite after 1 tack. I’m sorry to say that there will be no S2 to S3 conversion thread, this kite is very different than the S2 in as far as the bridle spacing and the shape of the wing is concerned. There is no easy way to upgrade your old equipment. The kite has a more swept back shape to it and there are 4 more columns of bridles than with the S2. The bridle rows are not straight across, but are swept back as well. There are some funny bridling on the wingtip, with several of the bridles running between the primaries on the wingtip and others crossing over each other. I assume these are to prevent tip collapse during periods of extreme depower when turning.

If you need only one kite in your quiver and you live in a not so windy area like I do the S3 15 SA is the kite for you. If you live in a windy area like Hatteras and want a one kite quiver a S2 13 would be the right kite. These kites are amazing in their power and depower and turning speed and leave little to be desired, except the kite itself. Want to be the one having the most fun on the water, jumping the highest and cranking upwind? There is no doubt this is the kite. I predict FS will sell a lot of these kites and also that there will be tons of S2’s on the second hand market in the very near future.

The biggest problem I see with this kite is the potential for people like me who always put up the biggest kite they can get away with for getting into a lot of trouble with this kite. The depower is so great that you tend to stay out for longer than you should, by the time you decide its too much the kite is way out of its usable wind range, you can’t ride with any board speed and the landing becomes extremely sketchy. For this reason alone I’d recommend that anyone who gets this kite opt for the 5th line system (not the FLS) which is much safer for high wind emergency self landings. If you get the FLS then convert the kite to a 5th line yourself, it only takes about an hour, and make sure to test it in light winds before you use the kite in high winds.

Good luck and happy kiting!

Thanks Armin for making the S3 a worthwhile upgrade and thanks to Ted for the loaner.

Karl

[Jast]

Thanks a lot Gridlock for a very in-dept review

Now, why does the S3-15m has a zipper on the back, when the 19 does not?


Br Jast

PS: You forgot the bag
- does it still have the metal zippers?

[grindlay]

Now that was a great review, thankyou. So refreshing to hear the pros and the cons...bring on summer!

[gridlok]

The S3 has no zippers, they went back to the velcro flaps on the trailing edge from the REAL old school kites. My concept Airs had those and I had no complaints about the velcro vents.

Ummm, Summer is over here. Fall is in full effect here.

Still not much wind thou.

Karl

[Jast]

The S3 has no zippers, they went back to the velcro flaps on the trailing edge from the REAL old school kites. My concept Airs had those and I had no complaints about the velcro vents.

Karl

Ah, the bag as in the bag, not on the back

I just can not get it, why they can not get their people to deliver with plastic zippers?

Here in Denmark from august to april the humidity and salt can lock these metal zippers, so just about nothing can get them working again.

I almost spent more time worrying on remembering to threat & grease those bag zippers then anything being in them!

Anyway, sounds like Flysurfer really managed to put some innovation into the S3-15m.

I will go call my bank...

[gridlok]

I flew the 19DE and 15 DE extensively back to back and I can say with some authority that pretty much everyone should get a 15 DE and not a 19 DE even if they weigh over 200 lbs. The 15 is a much better kite, higher jumping and very close to the 19 for lowend. The 19 has 1 or 2 mph more lowend but its just nowhere near as much fun to fly. Everytime I fly the 15 DE it puts a smile on my face. If I didn't just get a brand new 15 S2 SA I would never have bought the 19DE.

The 19DE is good for powered riding in light winds, stuff where the kite does not need to move much like board offs and double backrolls. The kite does not jump very high in light winds, it has too much drag. Also it is not as much fun with a race board in light winds as the 15 as the drag on the kite is a serious hinderance.

The 12 S3 however is hands down the most amazing kite I have ever flown. The hangtime is nuts, the vertical height blows everything else away, even the 15 S3. Its mad fun to fly, turns quick and whips through the wind window like nobodies business. This kite combines the best qualities of the P4 and the S2 and is in my opinion the ultimate one kite quiver. It loops very fast, even when the kite is depowered.

Flysurfer is not exaggerating when they call the S3 the 'Ultimate Flying machine'. The 12 and the 15 have my vote. The jury is still out on the 19.

If you do not want to spend a lot of money on kites, do not test fly a 12 S3 or a 15 S3. You have been warned...

Karl

[gridlok]

I had a couple of snowkiting sessions with the 19S3 and although I am not crazy about it on the water it is actually pretty good on the snow. You can't jump that high but in 10 mph you can still have a lot of fun doing low-altitude stuff. It's a great glider too if you're into that sort of thing.

Karl

[hardy1]

hi Karl
nice write up. i too like many others deciding between s3 19de or s3 15de im leaning for the 15m but still not sure. i weight around 190 so what would you say its realistic low end for me on snow/land. for water im using crazy fly TT 137x41. i own p4 10m that i fly most of the time here in bay area but for those lighter wind days i want something little bigger.
thanks Paul

[gridlok]

I have flown around 40 hrs on the 15 S3 and the 19S3. Get the 15. You should only get a 19 if you already have a 15 and decide you still need something bigger. The 15 is much better in every way except maybe 1-2knots less lowend.

If its not enough lowend get a strapless surfboard, I have a 6'8" JL Fish and it works great in <10 mph wind and its still fun!

Karl

[Bailey]

But in 10 kts and a 19 you can do 10 to 15 ft triple rotation jumps

[gridlok]

Maybe you can, but I can't. At 205 lbs I can't get more than 5 feet off the ground in 10 kts. The kite has much more drag than the 15, the 15 is a much better jumper, but it doesn't kick in till around 12 knots for me. At 15 knots you can jump really high with the 15 S3. Highend is about 30 mph where you can jump way higher than everyone else and its really actually scary.

The problem with the 19 and the 15 is on water you really start having fun at about the same time. My lowend on the 19 is about 8 knots, the 15 is probably 9 knots. The 15 is a much more fun kite to fly.

On snow I can have fun with the 19 when I would not be having fun with the 15 because there is much less drag (with the ground) and you can use more apparent wind. On water that doesn't happen. The difference between the 19 and 15 is not what you think it would be because the 19 has way more drag than the 15 does. 19 pulls more like a tank all the time, 15 not so much.

My advice is get a 15 not a 19 unless you already have a 15. Even if you're over 200 lbs.

Karl

[Way Too Much Wind]

I For this reason alone I’d recommend that anyone who gets this kite opt for the 5th line system (not the FLS) which is much safer for high wind emergency self landings. If you get the FLS then convert the kite to a 5th line yourself, it only takes about an hour, and make sure to test it in light winds before you use the kite in high winds.

Hey Karl, are you saying there is a fifth lin eoption for the 15m then, or is it a casoe of make your own? I have just got mine and it has the fls and after reading the thread on self landing the 15m by tone i am keen to get a 5th line safety on mine.

WTMW

[gridlok]

I have had no problems with the FLS system on the S3, there is attachment points for a 5th line but I have not heard of anyone doing it. Armin says that the 5th line makes quite a mess of the bridle.

Liking the 19S3 a lot more, insane hangtime, you can jump much higher on the water than on snow because you can edge more and get massive pop, even in light winds. Gregg and I had a 3 hr night kiting session at Hatterass under a full moon and it was awesome on the 19 S3.

Karl