never thought I would but going back to tubes

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never thought I would but going back to tubes

Postby brstn » Wed May 23, 2007 7:25 pm

This is my first post and sorry to say but I finally decided to go back to inflatable kites.

So far, I had a chance to fly P3 10M and 13M in water. They are great in the air but on water, they have been causing multiple problems including bow tied, drinking water, tangled lines etc....

I have to admit, it probably is 90% my fault as I am new to Flysurfer kites. As a matter of fact, if the kite sits on water leading edge down, re-launch is quite straight forward.

Yesterday, I've decided to practice real-life scenario, activating 5th line, crashing the kite, letting go the bar and etc, just normal stuff that can happen during riding. In two occasions, water got into the kite. First time when it happened, there was too much water in the kite to lanuch so I had to drag it to the beach and drain it (edited). Second, someone drained the water while I was holding the kite on water.

After that point, I was thinking "what if that happens in deep water?" Do I pretty much have to abandon my kite and swim back? How did you guys deal with it when it happened to you? At the end, I was so paranoid, I couldn't even go out far. Definately no fun on that.

I wanted to be a cool guy flying foils like you guys but I guess I am not good enough yet. I hate to go back to tubes but I think that's right decision for me. I've learned a ton of stuff in this forum and I really appreciate that. - Brian
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Re: never thought I would but going back to tubes

Postby sflinux » Wed May 23, 2007 7:58 pm

brstn wrote:"what if that happens in deep water?"

-I wear a pfd
-I wear a backpack with swimfins, a whistle, a strobe light, a vhf radio
-my helmet has reflective tape
-in light winds I use surfboards so I can paddle back to shore.

I've had to swimback to shore on three of occasions (the other occasions were due to the wind dying), each time due to equipment failure.
-Psycho2-21M: I was out cruising in light winds when I felt a jerk. The chicken loop webbing at the top of the loop ripped, allowing depowerlooplne to pull through. This sent the kite to leash. Unfortunately, the stopper ball at the end of the leash disintegrated and the kite released. This left me with a long swim back in rip currents (No doubt swim fins cut the time in half). I had just started carrying my swim fins a few weeks before expecting a scenario like this. The kite made it back to shore on it's own, but got hammered by the surf causing extensive damage to about 8 cells.
-Guerilla2-9M: I was out in 45+ mph gusts. It was survival mode and I was the only one on the water. I had the kite low and was edging like a mofo. When I felt a jerk. I looked up and the kite was taking off downwind. I still had the bar in my hands. The front lines snapped, and the rear line pigtails ripped completely out of the kite. (I was using more bar pressure pigtails which are not reinforced enough). That was before I used swim fins and just tried to use my twintip as a bodyboard and try to ride the waves back to shore.
-Cabrinha Access 12M: I was out cruising far from shore. The wind was picking up, I had the kite at 45 degrees. I felt the strongest gust of my life. I was leaning back and it ripped me off my edge pulling me out of the water. I landed so hard my helmet fell off. I looked up and my rear pigtail had ripped on the kite from the gust. I put the kite to leash and proceeded to self rescue. The winds died off and I was out so far, wasn't sure I'd make it back to the point (so I'd drift 12 miles to the other side of the bay). A windsurfer offered to haul me back to shore. He had me roll up my kite and lay on the kite and board. He fell into his sail and ripped it. At that point he couldn't help me and left me. I was only wearing a spring suit and was getting cold and crampy. I was only wearing a dakine impact vest, so I had to tread water to keep my head above water and couldn't rest like you can with a pfd. Luckily another windsurfer on a huge board and sail hauled me the rest of the way (2.5 hours later). I don't know if I would have survived if it wasn't for their help. Never let the air out of the leading edge inflatable, unless the winds are off-shore. And always remember to re-cap the tube after letting the air out or you'll end up with an anchor (I speak from (another) experience).

The above experiences led me up to carrying the above mentioned equipment for deep water sailing. But I think it also shows that sh*t can happen on any type of kitesurfing equipment.
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Postby tedted » Wed May 23, 2007 7:59 pm

After that point, I was thinking "what if that happens in deep water?"
You were in shallow water and you dragged the kite. This is the only way to fill the kite with watter. It writes in the manual not to do this.
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Postby FredBGG » Wed May 23, 2007 8:18 pm

Yup, don't drg the kite leading edge down in the water , it' s the way you will get water in the kite.
Fred

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Postby woonder » Wed May 23, 2007 9:11 pm

yo,
i had to swim last week...
first time i had to swim with my P3 10.

i underjumped the kite, landed, a gust hit the kite and the kite twisted itself... never seen such a nice bowtie...
i knew now i have to swim...
so i swam to the kite, rolled it up more or less...
a friend saved my board...
and an other dragged me close to shore...

i had to swim bevor with tubes... a lot of times!!!

i wont swich back!!! shit can happen... just dont drag the kite when its on the leading edge... it will drink a lot of water...

aloha

phil.

PS:

haha, had to sort the lines for 3 houres !!!
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Postby Janus » Wed May 23, 2007 9:22 pm

I had my p3 8 down in the waves this weekend...
I just got slammed by a wave, got airborned without wanting and started to rotate.. could not correct and went in the white stuff... and i felt the kite going down ( pulled the wrong side when i was backwards in the water..) above the water i could not see my kite due to the waves, ah there it is .. shit i need to get it up...
first i just pulled one line, it looked like it worked (well i know better but i did try..) wham! whitewater over the kite, thinking of letting it go so it would not be destroyed by the waves but it looked good so i packed my sense and just pulled the 2 leaders and up it goes. No water inside!
Only issue was that that one side the mixer balls had slipped... so the kite pulled to one side like hell (I'am used to a little side pull, which annoys me a lot!!) re checked the mixer and went out again
Well i forget to tell that i had to wait / swim / struggle for my board for 5 minutes and that took some water myself (with the kite up in the air..) and that i had to recover 10 minutes at the beach...

Like said don't fight the kite and it will not get water inside.

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Postby mv » Thu May 24, 2007 1:22 am

Before you switch, please think hard about this. Kite swims are not specific to foil kites. I have seen more than my fair share of tube kiters swimming back to shore with kites that will not relaunch or kites with busted bladders. When the leading edge bladder of a tube kite deflates it is no better than swimming in with a foil kite.

When I first learned to kitesurf, and this was before I even knew what a foil kite was, my instructor gave me a bit of advice. He said "do not go out any farther than you are willing to swim back." I have had a number of kite mishaps with both tubes and foil kites. I have had my harness break in 25+ knots with a 12m tube, pulleys break twice, once close to shore and once about .5 km out to sea, had my kite entangled with another kiter, and a few more minor problems. One time I was flying a 19m tube in light side shore winds and was unable to relaunch the kite. A tube kite acts like a nice big sail and I could not make it back to shore as the wind kept pushing me sideways. Luckily there was a break water directly downwind and I just floated for about 30 minutes until I was able to get out of the water. The point is that sh^t happens. Lines can break, baldders get holes, lines get entangled, and so on and so on. I worry about stuff like this so I tend to stay closer to shore and only peform certain tricks when I know that I will not be swimming back all afternoon if I mess up.

Please do not get into the mistaken thinking that one type of kite is safer than the other. A mishap with a tube kite 2 km from shore is just as bad as a mishap with a foil kite from the same distance.

Also FDS is for use in a emergency and not for everyday use. I do suggest practicing with the FDS to familiarize yourself on how to get your kite back in the air after going to FDS but I think most everyone will tell you that the times that FDS is needed are rare.

I hope you reconsider your move to tubes but if not good luck and stay safe.
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Postby Tom183 » Thu May 24, 2007 1:26 am

I think sflinux is on target - whatever you're flying, going far from shore carries its own risks. But I would also add that the Pulse is a much better "entry" kite for people new to foils, particularly if you're at a level where relaunching is a frequent occurence - the Pulse relaunches ridiculously easily, and it's also easier in a lot of other ways. (I like the performance of the P3 though...)

Had one failed relaunch on the P3 13m so far, dropped it somewhat close to shore and it took me a little while to get positioned for relaunch, yanked on the lines like crazy and couldn't understand why it wouldn't go - then looked closer and saw seaweed hanging from everywhere... :evil:
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Postby zfennell » Thu May 24, 2007 1:36 am

bummer.
how much for the 13m p3?
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Re: never thought I would but going back to tubes

Postby FredBGG » Thu May 24, 2007 2:13 am

sflinux wrote:
brstn wrote:"what if that happens in deep water?"

-I wear a pfd
-I wear a backpack with swimfins, a whistle, a strobe light, a vhf radio
-my helmet has reflective tape
-in light winds I use surfboards so I can paddle back to shore.



SFlinux...

Can you tell us what radio, what swinfins etc...actually details on the whole kit.

Thanks

Fred
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Postby Tom183 » Thu May 24, 2007 2:33 am

zfennell wrote:bummer.
how much for the 13m p3?


And how much for the 10m? :D
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Postby brstn » Thu May 24, 2007 3:33 am

Thanks guys. First of all, I am not selling my Flysurfers. I've been flying many depower kites such as Ozone, Flexifoil, and HQ and I know Flysurfers are good kites, if not better.

mv and sflinux have very good points. What's happening to me could be something like "I am giving up a Porsche just because I am not used to manual???"

So, question to you guys. What would/did you do once water gets in the kite? Can you wrap up and swim with it? I am thinking it must weighs a ton with water. or smarter idea would be to make it to the shore and get the kite later somehow? - Brian
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Postby Kaito » Thu May 24, 2007 6:25 am

Hi brst,
You're being swayed to go LEI, for the same reason I went FS over 3 years ago. (difficult relaunch and swimming in...) :|

Granted LEI's have evolved, I still feel much safer out on the water on my FS's than an LEI...

Yup, even the deep water..
Once you get it all worked out, you won't regret sticking to'm! :)

You just gotta have more awesome sessions on your kites than bad ones, then your frustration will grow towards pure satisfaction!
- you need water time for that to happen though!

Keep at it!
K.
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Postby Kaito » Thu May 24, 2007 6:34 am

brstn,
bout the water in the kite.

If you have more wind than water (in the ktie) you can just fly the kite & it'll peepee out the wing tip. If its drank alot, it might fly to one side some, which you'd have to steer to compensate. But that said, as long as the kites flying, even LOW at the edge of the window, even touching the water, it'll keep on piss'n!

If on the other hand, it's taken on so much that it just can't fly...
Then wrap the lines as normal, when you reach the bridle - keep wrapp'n...Fold it up, and wrap the bar AS TIGHT AS YOU CAN with the kite.
A tight wrap will help keep the water out as you make your way back to shore.

Been there, done that...Oh ~ about 3 times, in 4 years....
Not bad at all, if I may say.

Best wishes,
K.
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Postby Jrobson » Thu May 24, 2007 8:15 am

The only times I had water in the kite was when it was my own fault, I think the kites are really well designed to not take on water, but if you force it you will push water into it... I've go onto safety alot(I don't ride suicide) and relaunch no problem.

Different strokes for different folks... Also seen a lot of LEI not relaunch = long swim.
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