elf kites

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elf kites

Postby woonder » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:02 am

Hi
so one of our shopriders was in russia for race and marathon comp.
he said he saw this kite here: http://www.kite-site.ru/zsw.html
the first and second places where with this kite.
due to his comments the kite is closed cell... and waterusuable...
he said that the performance and hangtime was unbelivable...
wondering if someone of you knows about those kites..

aloha

phil.

PS:

seems that FS gets some serious company: spleene, elf.... etc
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Re: elf kites

Postby jazzz » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:44 am

Hi woonder,
don't know if Michael already told you, but about Zero-SWs - these kites are somewhat not serial in production - every single kite is fine tuned in races. they was made for racing solely and only few kites exists for this reason. (less than 10 afaik) In ski cource race nearest competitors to ZSW-16s are Speed2-19s and some Paraavis new prototypes. also there is not much people can benefit from this kite - you need to be a very skilled racer ( i mean really skilled - in top 20 here i think ) to properly use it and gain some income =))
if you have other questions about it - feel free to ask.
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Re: elf kites

Postby woonder » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:28 am

hei jazz,,
thanks for the info...
michael said something like this... that this kite is really hard to fly..
i was just thinking :D if michael can fly this... everybody can :wink:
just kidding...
can you use them on water? relaunch? and how do you compare the lowend of the 16 compared to the 19 speed3?
thanks

phil.
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Re: elf kites

Postby jazzz » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:50 am

:D it's not realy hard to fly, but races usually get won by a layer that exists between the kite and ski/board. :mrgreen:

back to topic: i've never seen it on water. about low end - i think it's better. haven't tried s3 in 19 but it's definetly better than sa2-19.
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Re: elf kites

Postby alderi » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:52 pm

jazzz wrote::D .... haven't tried s3 in 19 but it's definetly better than sa2-19.


So it's definitely definitely better than the s3 19 :shock:
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Re: elf kites

Postby holden » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:08 pm

if performance and handling on land is solid there is no reason that it does not perform reasonably on water, is there? ok, waterrelaunch might be an issue. let me hear your concerns!
i am definately interested in testing it.

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Re: elf kites

Postby Doonatamer » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:21 am

.
Last edited by Doonatamer on Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: elf kites

Postby seanrmz » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:22 pm

the elf was made to kite but mostly for racing. it can go up wind like a F1. there not given, they dont come cheep, i would look into it befor putting out your dollar for the water use. they also come with out a bar .
there was also a kite company called Paraavis kites aslo from russa. but i dont have any info on it..
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Re: elf kites

Postby fernman » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:55 pm

I like the clean look of their kites. Goes to show how a lot og graphics really detract from the design of a kite.

Flysurfer has many years of time and effort into dialing in the stability of the Speed series. The depower is also amazing. Both of those features are necessary for a kite that is manageable on the snow and water in large sizes.

My guess when I hear that the Elfkites are difficult to fly is that the do not have an advanced bridling system and rely on expert flying skills in order to fly properly. Just go fly an unmodified Psycho 26M or Mastair 16M compared to the Speed 3 21M and you will see how far FS has come.
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Re: elf kites

Postby jazzz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:53 am

fernman wrote:My guess when I hear that the Elfkites are difficult to fly is that the do not have an advanced bridling system and rely on expert flying skills in order to fly properly. Just go fly an unmodified Psycho 26M or Mastair 16M compared to the Speed 3 21M and you will see how far FS has come.


Sorry, but you're wrong. firstly - they are not difficult to fly by any means, secondly - there is about two generations of zero kites since first post in this thread, each one better than previous. There is also general-purpose freeride kite called Jocker-4 (AR5.3) which can successfully compete with speeds 15.
and finaly - no one thinks here that FS speeds are race kites anymore, just excellent freeride kite. there was about 3-4 FS riders from about 30-40 competitors on last RU champ (ski class). and when standing on the start with speed3 over your head and there is some new race sausages (with AR~7,9) nearby - there is a strong feeling that you're holding ozone frenzy =)

about compexity or advanced bridle system - Paraavis VXs are using two trimmer system (2 additional lines to change airfoil curvature) and i've seen guys from Elf's gang also using some extra lines for wing mechanisation.
about Speed3 21M - it's don't go to the edge of w.window as it should. i mean for snowkite racing )

as for water use - they are all closed cell and there is no difficulties with restart.

p.s. i'm using FS kit and don't want to advertise any brands or kites, so don't get me wrong, just trying to be objective. :wink:
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Re: elf kites

Postby ArgleBargle » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:58 pm

jazzz wrote:p.s. i'm using FS kit and don't want to advertise any brands or kites, so don't get me wrong, just trying to be objective. :wink:


So you use the Flysurfer kites because they are not race kites - but excellent freeride kites?

(This is a genuine question - I would never entertain the thought of using a full race kite, am only shooting for an easy to use, yet powerful package to get my fix)
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Re: elf kites

Postby KiteRider » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:36 pm

woonder wrote:one of our shopriders was in russia for race and marathon comp.


That must be Pierre Alain Raynal. He was also at the WISSA in Finland and last year here in Canada.

woonder wrote:the kite is closed cell... and waterusuable...
he said that the performance and hangtime was unbelivable...
wondering if someone of you knows about those kites..


I have tried the Elf Zero 16m a few times. It is unbelievably powerful. I have not tried the ParAAvis but they are comparable kites: very thin profile, very high aspect ratio, fast, powerful. Their penetration in the air is nice and smooth. In highly gusty winds they are not be as stable as the Flysurfer Speed III kites. But having seen them in action, they sure make the Flysurfer Speed III kites look like tourist kites. In the last two years, I have participated in 6 snowkite racing events against those kites and always finished 2nd. There was no way I could beat them. They were going faster and more upwind than I could. The only race I won this year was because of an unfortunate wing-tip closure on the Elf.

Interestingly, just a few years ago, high performance kites were open-cell on handles without depower. Now, all those new high-performance kites are closed cell kites on bars with depower systems. I suspect it has more to do with aerodynamics, wind range and stability than with water usability.

I do like to race but I will not go to the extent of buying race-specific kites. Snowkite racing is currently becoming more and more an equipment race (as opposed to skills and tactics), whether it is at the international level or even here locally. Nothing wrong with that for the progression of the sport, but personally, I am not ready to go that far. Now, not only people use those race-specific kites, they also use speed skis (235-245cm long and 10cm wide), and even go to the extent of waxing their skis between every race. That is way beyond what I am ready to do to win races. Racing must remain fun and not become a chore.

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Re: elf kites

Postby jazzz » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:54 am

KiteRider wrote:I do like to race but I will not go to the extent of buying race-specific kites. Snowkite racing is currently becoming more and more an equipment race (as opposed to skills and tactics)

this weekend we had a nice comp made by local FS guys. there was a subclass of speeds 15 and open class of any fs kite. it was qute exciting to race on similar or equal stuff. also skill and tactics all was there :D so it's not everyting so bad about snowkite racing 8)
short movie from the first day: wind is about 20-24 knots, gusts to 28-30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlou647eoMI
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Re: elf kites

Postby chemosavi » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:47 am

And I thought all Russians sat around in weather like that and wrote great novels. Nice vid.

Tip: Easy way to eliminate all the obnoxious wind noise is to tape some fuzzy fur from a stuffed doll over the microphone. You'd be amazed at how well it works.
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Re: elf kites

Postby balugh » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:33 am

What kite won...? Looked like an Outlaw was in the lead at the beginning...
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